FR - The Girl Who Didn't Deserve Affection 1-27-11

* NOTE: Long FR, 3 FRs in 1, feel free to take breaks and come back when you like. You know the drill :)*

Part I
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I went on a day2 with a girl I met off OKC again. This one wasn't so great though. Coming in, I thought I had massive attraction -- we talked for days before our meet, and it seemed we connected on several levels - not just flirting stuff, but like we liked anime, games, working out, being healthy, etc. I spent a lot of phone and email time with this girl.

It SEEMED like it was 'ON'. From an outsider's perspective, one would definitely think so. Everytime I emailed her, she emailed back more. She liked all the 'cute' pet names I called her, and would giggle like mad if I playfully gave her a 'kiss' over the phone.

I didn't really understand why then our date went to hell. Thinking back though, I blame it on getting to know each other TOO WELL; to the point where there wasn't any mystery left. There are a few more points though, I'll get to them too...

A little more background history, then I'll get to the story here:

She is a workout trainer for a high intense workout program called 'Crossfit'. It's comparable to P90x, but I think it's a little more intense. Anyway, check it out on Youtube; a lot of girls are in it because they take it for self defense and stuff.

I initially opened with this line:

"you probably get this a lot... but you are freakin' adorable :)

oh yah did i forget to mention strong? lol

<3 "

The strategy here was to be a little different. I didn't want to say 'oh you're really in shape' as the first thing she read, because she probably gets told this every day. Instead I made it almost seem like I was gonna say you're really strong, but I replaced it with adorable instead.

That made it kind of funny and interesting. The love mark added to making the message playful and fun.

I call this opener a hybrid opener - where you observe something glaringly obvious about the girl but instead of opening with that like you would in a situational opener, you change the glaringly obvious thing to something completely opposite of that (but funny or attractive) and use the glaringly obvious part as the secondary part of your message. It shows you're unique and interesting as a result.

'Adorable' works pretty well on a sports chick, I don't think 'cute' so much or 'hot', cause they get those words a lot... most fit girls don't think they're 'cute', and 'hot' is an overused boring word. Plus, with sports chicks, they get hit on a lot already as being 'hot', or every dude says something situational about how fit they are. Being 'adorable' takes them out of the 'matrix' and forces them to use their imagination. A lot of girls who are fit secretly want to be adorable to someone else, and don't want to wear the pants in the relationship. This girl totally fell into that frame.

She responded VERY well to the opener and thus ensued a windfall of conversation. I continued to frame her as adorable while starting to mention her fitness stuff (which was okay by that point -- it showed I was interested in her actual life). What I noticed was that she would write back way more than whatever I'd say to her. She'd answer all my questions and on top of that talk about things that happened during her day. She'd ask questions about my life as well, so I started talking about my day in response.

Our messages got very LONG as a result, and after a certain point, I knew I had to just invite her out. I got her number after chatting with her in real time, then I decided to call her instead of type. Like our emails, I ended up TALKING a lot with this chick on the phone. I don't really remember the conversations word for word, but the gist of it was mostly talking about my day, her day, me flirting and saying shit I wanted to do her (pin her against wall/makeout, describe my fantasy of wanting to see her toned body in a sexy dress, or with glasses), her flirting back by denying me a little and adding high pitched giggles if it got really erotic in conversation. At some point she was really into the fantasy and did want to act it out. However, if it got too much, she would start to say 'creepy'.. which eventually came back to haunt me later.

Well, anyway I had a procedure in place for that word... If I spiked her BT too much, to the point she was hyper denying or saying 'lame'.. I'd switch over into straight comfort.. which helped us reconnect and bond better. That's how I managed to keep her from being too creeped out and also connect longer.

As a surprise, I found she was into the stuff I'm into - anime, cooking, fitness, etc. Over time, we had a lot to talk about just naturally. This entire week, we talked daily.. from Monday night to Thursday afternoon -- she even started waking me up in the morning with 'wakeup calls' because I told her I wanted to wake up earlier and be more committed to my daily workout. It was sweet of her, so I told her that. She felt good doing it.

At one point, my roommate even said "DUDE, it sounds like you're totally into her!" "Yeah", I responded. "Maybe huh.. I could see myself in an LTR with this chick. That'd be nice.." (I started to dream of a day where I could finally leave this community and just be in paradise).

Part II
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Yesterday, after moving stuff to Long Beach (I'm finally moving out of Riverside in hopes of finding a job in the OC or LA while temporarily living in my parent's summer house), I called this chick up again, and we talked about meeting up.

She was down to meet around 5; she would be hanging out with her friends at a coffee shop. THEN, it got weird. She asked me what I'd wear, so she could recognize me. I told her I'd be wearing a brown button down shirt with jeans and a baseball cap.

"A cap huh? Well then I'll just wear my gym clothes -- doesn't seem like you want to dress up, and I hate dressing up anyway. You can just come see me as I am."

"That'd be hot, I get to see you in your sexy workout clothes," I said.

"Haha, I'm just going to look hella normal though. I doubt you'll find me attractive."

"I doubt you can make yourself any less adorable. I'll always find you somewhat attractive."

"Oh really huh? Then I'm going to do my best to be really ugly and boring. You won't even like me at all."

"Haha, whateverz! Even if we were super boring together, we'd still be the coolest couple to everyone else."

"Lame. Haha well here's the address to the place if you still want to come." (She buzzes my ear with Skype texts as she knows I get annoyed by it while talking to her on the phone and laughs maniacally. Every time I get a text or Skype message, my phone vibrates. We had a thread about how she wants to feel my phone vibrate on her with sexual undercurrents :P).


Part III
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Final part to this story. I drive out and reach Santa Monica. It's a beautiful, happening place. The streets are crowded with couples having an afternoon snack, people jogging, businessmen having meetings, activity groups meeting up -- it seems like paradise.

Perfect weather. I'm walking down 2nd and Santa Monica street making my way to Wilshire. In the distance I can see the ocean and note several really enticing restaurants I want to visit later. I think to myself -- I need to move here. This would be fucking awesome.

I meet with her at the proposed coffee shop. She's with her friends. Immediately, I realize, wow.. she's not even that hot. Her pictures online were way better. It feels a bit anti-climatic. Her body is still good looking, but her face.. I kinda don't feel attracted anymore.

Another thing I notice is that her friends are WAY better looking than her. Uh-oh.. I think to myself.

Her friends are like almost 8s and 9s. They are in great shape, look super pretty with makeup on, and as I talk to them to make casual conversation, I realize they are FUCKING smart. UCLA chicks may be party girls, but some of them are really motivated in life, well-traveled, and/or seriously well put together. It's like meeting the creme of the crop. Thank god all this time I've been reading, studying different philosophies, eating and trying different foods, diets, travelling to different places -- it helped me keep up and appear as active as them. (God this is why IE chicks suck -- they're just poser chicks with obesity problems lol -- when you come to a place like this, you truly know what the meaning of 'goal oriented' is).

Sorry for diverging there, so anyway back to main story. I kinda wasn't into the chick anymore. Her friends were married unfortunately, but I felt it'd be cool to stay in this girl's social circle as it might lead to more hot chicks. Unfortunately I didn't do that. I felt bad. I decided to just go with it and 'practice' anyway.

I asked her what she wanted to do.

"I dunno," she said. "I'm just going to go home soon. I wanted to buy groceries before that. There's a Ralphs up here. Do you want to go there?"

"Well, we could do that but what about dinner or something? We could also walk down the pier, it's really nice."

"Nah, I already know this place. I don't want to go there, and I'm not really into dinner."

"How about a movie then?"

"Nah, I don't want to do that either. You'll probably just get touchy feely on me in there."

"Lol.. as if I'm not already doing that?" (I poked her a couple times playfully).

She didn't seem to mind at all, but she didn't seem that interested either. (What was up with this chick?)

"Okay, well if you want to go to Ralphs, I'll go with you. Are you going to cook me dinner?"

"Nooooooo, obviously not. You can try to entertain me though if you want. I'm just going to be hella boring."

"Ohh.. I get what you're doing. You're so adorable." (I give her a kiss on the cheek... she doesn't react negatively).

"Well, let's go to Ralphs. I'll help you pick out something, then if you want to go home, that's cool. I'll check out the area here myself."

We go to Ralphs, she gets some fish, and while we're in the checkout line, we're talking about eating healthy and Crossfit. She talks to me about her daily regiment which is pretty intense - lots of waking up early, lifting, running.. I'm just maintaining proximity. We're side by side a lot, she doesn't seem to mind. As she talks to me about something else, I pull her in and give her a kiss on the head. She responds positively to it.

The cashier lady smiles and thinks we are a happy couple. As we walk back to her car (which is parked at Ralphs), I grab her hand and hold it as we walk. She lets me, then after a min, pulls off. We start walking away from her car, she wants to go see mine. There is some strange dark alley on the way to my car, so I put her in my arms and pretend it's the scene from 'Thriller' (Michael Jackson). She calls me super lame as I act like MJ protecting her from the ghouls at night.

There's also a dirty motel on the side of the streets walking further up Wilshire, so I grab her hand and proclaim we will now makeout inside this dirty motel. She laughs but says "Eww..CReEPY"

(Creepy? Okay maybe it was a little. Don't care. Bounce back Cloud). "Haha, I totally saw this earlier and made a mental note to take you here since I can't go back to your place or drive you to mine. LOL"

"Haha super lame. That just sounds gross."

"Haha, well I kid. I'm not gonna take you there after all. Let's go to CVS, I want to find out how long the parking is here."

We go to CVS where we browse through aisles some more. I hold her hand for a little bit, let go, pepper her with some kisses, but all the while she's still getting defensive. (What's up with this chick? I thought we had so much connection beforehand, and now I'm getting major ASD).

"You know, this date is kinda lame", I say. "I never imagined having a date at a Ralphs and then a CVS. I want to do something more romantic, like dinner or walk the beach or movie. LOL"

"I'm not very girly though. I don't like being romantic." (I think to myself, could this girl be like the other girl from my previous story? The mall chick? So I start to go heavy sexual instead).

I talk in innuendos, which causes her to be more creeped out. "Ugh, you sound so creepy right now.."

So far date of fail. I can't get her to invest at all, she's being a boring bitch and worse I'm falling into the creepy guy category. How do I save this?

I walk her back to her car now that my car is okay, and start busting out old routines stuff. I do palm reading, show her a little magic tricks, try to pique her interest with cold reading.

Still resistance. She doesn't want to see a magic trick. "I know what you want to do.. it's not going to work on me." My Casanova twirl fails. I use the 'noserape' technique, and she gets super mad.

=/

We get back to her BMW 6 series (I guess she was loaded?), and pretty much I feel the date coming to an end. In my mind, I'm preparing myself to move on and just have fun by myself for the rest of the night.

I try one last time to re-game this chick. She talks about how she's boring, and this is her 'every day'. "I told you, you wouldn't like me. I'm not your type of girl."

"Well, we are a 90% match on OKC. We do like the same stuff, and we did talk a lot on the phone and in email."

"Nah, I don't buy into that OKC stuff. And I only said I liked the same stuff as you to make you feel better."

"Lol, you dork. I find it extremely adorable you're trying so hard to be boring." (I kiss her).

No reaction.

"I am boring. What exactly do you like about me anyway?"

I cut her thread and just caveman her. I grab her by the arm, pull her into me and go for the kiss. She resists. I kiss her on the cheek instead. She wrestles with me for a bit, but I hold onto her, keeping her in my arms and hugging her more. Eventually she subsides and just rocks with me. I continue to kiss her sporadically. Her back is towards me.

"This is what you want, huh? Just to get in my pants. I knew it from the start," she says.

"Yeah I did. Seems like you wanted that too."

"Eww. Creeper. You're like major creeper."

"If I'm a creeper, why are you rocking with me? Stop me."

"Okay, I will."

Mild resistance.

I grab her again and she moves back into my body. She stays there even longer. We continue to rock together, and I laugh to myself. She isn't struggling at all.. in fact it even seems like she wants to stay on top of me.. her ass is right on my dick. I figure she's giving all this ASD because I don't have enough comfort, even though she likes the affection.

So I talk straight comfort. We look at buildings, talk about stars, talk about silly stuff, whatever. It's like phone conversation again. People are passing by looking at us like we're the weirdest couple in the parking lot though. We start making fun of them though.

For a while, I am enjoying the moment... and can play with her body. I massage her stomach, breasts, put my hands in her pants, in her hands.. kiss her more... everywhere except lips. No go there. She's still moving away.

I start to feel like I'm trying too hard here. It's coming off like I'm seeking an outcome from this date... a kiss on her lips, or in her mind.. getting into her pants. I've already kissed her this much, and I even got creative where I kissed my own lips with my hand then put it on her lips. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, I've already kissed closed this girl. I don't really need anything more from this date and I'm cool not having sex if it doesn't happen.

I decide to just push her off. But she won't let go. If she likes me this much, why the mad resistance? Why is she trying so hard to be boring and just not give into the moment? Maybe it's lack of experience? Maybe she's never really had a boyfriend? Or sex? Maybe she's just not comfortable with this kinda affection -- maybe she's a virgin or something? I ask her..

"You seem like the chick who doesn't really date that much. How many other boyfriends have you had?"

"What's that supposed to mean? I went out with a guy a little while ago, and we saw the sunset together on the pier."

"Your gay best friend doesn't count."

She scoffs at me. "Hah! He wasn't gay..."

"Okay, well then how long were you in a relationship for?"

"3 months."

"Why did it end?"

"I dunno.. he just broke it off. He just wanted to play the field again. I'm boring."

(Damn right you are.)

What can I do? She won't let go, nor will she 'give in'. Is caveman the answer?

I pick her up and lift her only to realize she's really heavy. "LOL, so this is your P90x huh? You can't even lift a girl. You suck. This is why we shouldn't date each other. At least my other boyfriend worked out with me everyday. You're a whiner who can't even wake up early."

"Haha, whatevers."

"Whatevers. You're so lame. Seriously you have the lamest comebacks ever."

"You know what, I don't think you deserve my affection." I push her off hard.

"What?!"

"Yeah, I don't think you deserve it. You can go home."

"Okay I will. I am going home."

More stares at each other. She won't go home. I look at her, she looks at me. "What a creeper.. you've got a creepy stare," she says.

"So do you. You're creepier. LOL"

"Stop mirroring me. You're such a kid."

"We should be jealous of kids, they're free to do whatever they want."

"You're just dumb. You want to be a kid all your life."

I grab her and caveman her again to kiss her. She resists again, but it goes back to old patterns again. We're doing the body rock, and this time her front kind of to me. I go for the kiss close. No dice. She moves to the side, then back, and again she's on top of me there.

It's like she gets off that way. I'm a faceless, sex giving robot.

I spin her around, and say I want to dance with her. She steps all over my feet. I push her off, she comes back on.

"You're free to go home. You can."

"I am. I'm trying hard to get in my car. You just keep stopping me."

"I'm not." I open my arms out and say, "See.. go.."

Another long awkward stare. More tension ensues. I don't even know why I'm doing this anymore. I feel like I lost interest a long time ago. What a bad date... not romantic in the least bit, she's an OKC dud, hella annoying, hella qualifying... I just feel like even if I got the lay, I'd hate her long term. She wasn't that cool chick from the phone anymore. She had proved herself to be the most boring chick on the planet.

She won't leave.. so I go once more for caveman, kiss, miss, kiss elsewhere and say...

"You know I don't even care about kissing you on the lips. It makes no difference, you're still going to act like this anyway."

"Haha, what?"

"Yah, I don't really seek anything from you. I don't care about getting in your pants."

"Liar. You're totally lying now."

"Go home. No big deal. You can go :)"

"I am going. You're just a weirdo stopping me so much."

"Go home then. Not forcing you to do anything you're uncomfortable with here."

"Yeah you are. You're a total liar."

I walk away from her arms open. She looks more awkward, then gets in her car. I wave to her 'bye' and turn around walking away.

She closes the door, sits there for a while... I keep walking off, and finally she leaves.

I drive back home to Long Beach, and notice she's blocked me on OKC and Skype. So ended our 90% match made in heaven. Hey, maybe I should work for OKC as a field tester. They love gathering data for their site anyway. You guys hiring?

- Cloud

Thoughts
========
It took me a while to kind of come to senses later. I felt winded and didn't want to eat. I just went back home, where of course I had to explain the story to my roommate and my other friend online.

How could she be like that? Why do I always meet the weirdest girls? Just once I'd like to have a normal relationship like everyone else. I'm so tired of pickup. I could careless about sarging at the bar. Yet it seems like I'm always going through this shit. I might end up becoming the world's greatest pickup artist 'cause I'm just forced to keep going out all the time. I seriously envy all my friends who didn't have to go through this shit and are happily together as couples from college or high school.

Anyway, I guess I feel better today as I'm typing this. Thinking about it today, I felt like I gave this chick too much affection. Too much 'pull', not enough 'push'.

Kissing, making out, sex, touching in general... that shit is all powerful and does work on girls like a super move... but it's a reward for good behavior. I feel like as PUAs, we should be hella stingy about giving that stuff out. I gave this girl too much, and essentially it got to a point where no matter how 'bad' she acted, I continued to kiss her or hold her. I essentially trained her that she could act as boring or ugly as she wanted and I'd continue to give her affections. Terrible.

I really feel like this date opened my eyes a bit in terms of being a Casanova. If a girl is treating you shitty, just walk away. Friend zone her. Be a jerk. Flirt with her better looking friends in front of her. Tell her she's not your type. Push her away, no matter how clingy she gets. Why reward a girl for bitch like behavior? Let her try to get you back instead.

In this case she was trying hard to get me back towards the end, but she wasn't comfortable submitting either. I guess if I waited longer.. and continued to see her on multiple dates, maybe she would have been okay with letting me 'kiss' her on the lips. But what's the point?

Why should I have to work so hard for an outcome? That's the lamest fucking thing ever. I get that I'm supposed to enjoy my 'time' with this girl, it's not about any 'outcome'.

Ultimately, it's just about sharing good moments together sex or no sex. I feel like though, this whole date was a giant shit test, that really didn't need to happen. I messed up by saying initially it was okay for her to be boring, to not dress up, or act in any sort of sexy fantasy roleplay for me. I messed up because I said I would still find her attractive as an utterly boring, rude insensitive creature. We guys are NOT attracted to boring. Why ever settle for it then? I think part of the excitement from having a quality lover is finding someone you can have sexy roleplays with.. and I believe even girls feel good when they can make your wildest fantasies come true. So why reward bad behavior, shitty fantasies, or whatever... NEVER again. Intolerable.

I also blame being too comfortable with her, to a point where it could get super boring.. where I could allow her to be that way. A date should be fun and adventurous, if we both know each other so well, to the point we're finding it okay to be our boring best... what the hell is wrong with us? All the mystery is gone out of the date.

Plus, dates are meant to spend time with the person you love, not with the person you barely know. I feel dates work way better after you've fucked a chick.

Well, that's that...

I'm thinking of taking a break from PUA, and just focusing on getting a job. I don't really care about anything else until I take care of my financial situation. Maybe I'll see you guys around the block though as I'm out in the LA area for a while.

LR - Sex with Ghost of OKC Past 1-20-11

** NOTE LONG POST, mainly cause it's 3 FRs in 1**

Part 1:
-------
So here's how it went down. I met this Asian chick on OKC, like most of the girls I've been meeting lately. My opener wasn't anything really special.. actually been being kinda copy/paste lately with an opener I use called 'roses are red'. She responded well to it, so I complimented her and we made some back and forth basic conversation afterward.

Several days of emails exchange, nothing super serious, I begin to state my intention after the 4th or 5th message and she replies with not looking for anything right now, but just seeing what comes her way. I say 'cool' and continue to stack forward.

She asks me about the other girls I met on this site, which I kinda answer, but also deflect. Whenever girls ask me this stuff, I give just enough to suggest I'm in demand, but I leave it at that. If they want to know more I always start pushing for a day2.

I finally get her number and then call her up to set the day2. This is where everything changes.. and my mind explodes.

When I call her, everything starts off normal, I'm just being humorous and talking about what I'm cooking. She likes that I can cook and have a life. She is interested in spending time with me at my place in Long Beach. We set the date for Friday. In my mind, I'm thinking YES! Then she throws a curve ball.

"So what are you looking for from this site?" she asks.

I answer with "well, just looking to meet someone interesting, not crazy or anything."

Her: "Wait, what do you mean by crazy? What does that even mean?!"

Me: "Uh, I just don't want to meet a crazy person, ya know..."

Her: "How many girls have you met on OKC so far? Were they crazy? Is that why you're still on this site?"

Me: "Well, by crazy I just mean not weird lol. Are you weird?"

Her: "Um.. I dunno haha. I guess I'm not like other girls. What does weird even mean anyway! You're normal?"

In my mind I make a mental note to rethink what I just said to this girl for all future girls moving forward. This was a very bad thread.

Eventually, I get past the hurdle but she starts asking me for stories about other girls I dated on OKC that were 'weird'. So I tell her the story about the first girl who went crazy at the mall because I didn't try to make a move on her within the first hour of the date. To me, I thought that was super crazy because, well all my friends said it was crazy.. girls just act that forward. I thought with this story she'd laugh and say 'oh.. haha I get what you mean.' She didn't.

Her: "Whoa! That's CRAZY? I would have done the same thing!"

My face literally melts off. Am I being haunted by the ghost of Christmas past here?

Her: "You know, you seem like a nice guy.. and she just wanted to meet someone assertive. I think I know what kind of guy you are now. I'm not sure this will work out."

Me: (In my mind: OH SHIT! WTF do I say? How do I save this I think) "No.. no I'm not. I mean, I'm a GOOD guy, I can be assertive and stuff.. (GREAT CLOUD, So smooth)."

Her: "I'm not sure, there's a reason this site says we're 'enemies' on here. (OKC has a match percentage which tells you how much of a match you are in terms of love, friendship and enemies. We had a high enemy rating)"

Me: "That's just cause we might be opposites. And opposites attract baby. We gets it on and stuff."

Her: "Lol, really? That's interesting. But yah, I'm not really looking for anything serious at the moment. I just want to meet a lot of people and experience new things in life."

Me: (Still thinking how to save it..) "Hey, yah I totally am too. Adventure is the spice of life."

Her: "Are you sure though? You're a nice guy, and I usually don't go for them -- if EVER. I like being dominated and stuff."

Me: "Hell yah, I can dominate you baby. (More AFCness lol). Let's just meet up. We'll figure this shit out on Friday."

Her: "I dunno.. I feel like I've made a mistake. You shouldn't force yourself to be someone you aren't."

Me: "Fuck, no. Let's do this. Like I said I love adventure. You seem really interesting. Let's do this. Friday at 2."

Her: "Um.. okay. I won't flake then. We'll meet Friday. I just want you to know I'm probably not the girl you're looking for long term if you really are a nice guy."

Me: "Let's do this! Friday. 2."

Her: "Okay, see you then."

Phone conversation ends, and I am freaking the fuck out. My roommate, Luck (back in town), starts laughing his head off. "DUDE! WTF GAME was that!!? You started off so well and now you're CHODING AROUND!"

Me: "I dunno man.. I dunno what I was thinking! I told her that story about my first OKC date with the girl in the mall thinking she'd understand, but she turned out to be ANOTHER girl from the mall. Girl from the mall part 2!!!"

Luck: "Ahahaha. DUDE You just gotta be dominant. These chicks just are very sexual, and know what they want. They are the sexually confident types!!"

Me: "Yeaah man!! I realized that too when she started telling me I was a nice guy. I tried to be reframe everything and just be super assertive.

It came off so weird though. I dunno man.. maybe I shouldn't get with her, if this is gonna be like last time."

Luck: "WHAT? DUDE, this chick wants to FUCK YOU! Why would you throw that away?!!"

Me: "Maybe I just want a nice girl too... I dunno if I can really be an asshole type to this girl. It feels insanely hard for me to do! (By this point I'm super choding out)"

Luck: "NO DUDE. Just be dominant. She likes you. She wants to fuck you. Here, watch some porn. You need to get in the fucking mind state." (He tries to access my computer.. but then I get a text from the girl)

Her: "Hey, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to freak you out."

Me to Luck: "OH SHIT! She's starting to flake dude! What do I say??!"

Luck starts laughing and I feel even more chody. I really don't know what to say because I feel like if I say "no it's okay..blah blah blah", I'll go back to chode conversations where she'll eventually cancel the date on me because I'm too nice.

Yet if I suddenly talk dirty to her like Luck is saying I should (cause that's what she likes), it'd come off weird and uncalibrated.

We continue arguing, and I'm super choding out. I start calling other CC ppl, and get to Austin, who nonchalantly says.. "Oh, just fuck her then. Yeah, good job man. You're getting an LR. How's your daygame going? Are you still sarging at the bars? I want to get some practice."

I don't think he gets the urgency of the situation, so I retell the story to him.. and he seems confused too. "Umm.. your friend is right, just tell her the same stuff you said at the end of your phone call.. you want to meet and let's fuck." Thank you Austin. I hang up and write the text.

Me to HB8: "Lol. It's a new year ;) Let's make it happen."

HB8: "Haha, well okay. But are you sure?"

Me: "Yup. I want to make your fantasy come true."

Luck adds: "Tell her to call you. Leave it at that dude. Pretend like your busy."

Me to HB8: "Call me."

HB8: "Okay, in a bit."

I'm still freaking out, but so far damage control is working. Mentally, I'm having anxiety about not being able to be the 'asshole' this chick wants, which Luck is saying I need to be. He tells me chicks like these want to be spanked, clothes ripped off, hair pulled, biting, fucked hard in the ass, etc. He plays some foreign film on Netflix where this cop dude basically slaps this bitch, rips off her clothes, and spanks the shit outta her with his whip. He handcuffs her, then fucks her super hard on the bed while she screams. "YOU NEED TO BE THAT FRIDAY...except the whip part. Don't use a whip." says Luck.

"I can't! AHGUHHHHHH" I think to myself. "Why am I so nice inside? I can't hurt a girl. It feels like I'm hurting myself when I do that shit. I dunno.." More anxiety ensues.

I've already had 2 LRs up til now, and fucked about 5 or 6 times. Every time before, I was always the guy leading the interaction, so I was always in control of how aggressive I was. I can be aggressive, and dominant, but honestly when I have sex, I like to be sweet about it overall. I can't see myself trying to rape some chick... I get chills thinking about what would happen if things went wrong... Maybe that's why I feel so scared now. The pressure is on me to perform.

Luck: "It'll be a great experience for you. Dude this is her fantasy, just let her lead the interaction if nothing else. She can help you. Learn."

Me: "Fuck man. Okay, I'll say those things when I talk to her again. I'll do this. EXCUSE ME, I'M GONNA GO TURN ON SOME PORN IN THE NEXT ROOM."

I try to watch some, but I still feel so nervous, so I turn it off and just lie on my bed. I need advice.. I wish I had advice.. so I call more Casanovas. No one picks up... just a bunch of voicemail. Finally, Carte Blanche picks up and I explain the whole situation to him. He says pretty much the same stuff.. but at least I feel like the chode in me is subsiding. Then HB8 calls in the middle of my conversation, so I thank Carte and talk to this girl.

Her: "Hey, so are you sure you want to do this? I'm like.. really high right now. I am totally tripping out here."

Me (in my most alpha, sexually cool voice): "Hell yah, baby. Let's fucking do this. I wanna fuck your tiny little pussy and rip it open tomorrow."

Her: "MM... that would be so hot. What else would you do to me?"

Me: "I would slam you against the wall, rip off all your clothes, bend you over and spank the shit outta you"

Her: (She starts getting into it and moaning a little). "I want you to get me off.. mm.. what else, tell me more. If I came over right now what would you do to me?"

I start describing my usual laygame formula to her, biting her neck, sucking her nipples, working down to eating her out, fucking her hard, cumming on her (she wants it on the face).

Me: "Are you getting yourself off right now? Mmm.. I can hear it.."

HB8: "Duh obvious lol. MMM..."

We continue, but then she starts to panic again.

HB8: "I dunno.. I feel weird now, this is so weird. You're a stranger, I don't even know you that well... and I'm so high right now. Are you sure you want this? I know you don't like crazy girls."

Me: "It's a new year, I like adventure, yeah we should totally do this. I wish I had called you over today."

HB8: "Mm.. Do you smoke at all? Have you ever rolled on E? Would you be down for that?"

Me: (Would I be down for that? I feel myself asking more life questions in my head -- am I on my way to becoming a drug addict who dates crazies now? -- I immediately shut off the chode). "Mm.. yah, let's do it baby. You can teach me stuff, I think you'd make a great sexy teacher."

HB8: "Haha, really.. okay yah I can teach you. But it's better if the girl is on E, if the guy is, he can't perform well. So you don't have to take it. (Whew!)"

HB8: "To be quite honest, not a lot of guys can satisfy me. I have a high sex drive. I don't usually stay with one guy for more than one night. No guy can make me cum. Do you still want to do this?"

Me: "I just want to make your fantasy come true. Tell me what you want me to do to you. "

HB8: "So, I want to come over to your place, and we could watch a movie, but as we're watching it, you can't touch me at all... only watch. I can touch myself though. It's a test of how much patience you have. If you succeed, you shall be rewarded. I hate it when guys don't try to build up the sex.. that's why I want to do this."

Me: "That's freaking hot. I would love to do that.. I'd love to even do that tomorrow. You could dress all sexy for me and tease me."

HB8: "Are you serious? Hahaha I'm going to dress like garbage instead and you'll have to endure it. But underneath I might wear something really hot and revealing."

(For some reason, I start to think this chick may actually be really insane, and could possibly have a gun on her too.. afterall, drugs, trash, being manipulative to guys? Could this be for real?). I start getting a bit cynical in conversation and fuck up the last leg of the race. "So what happens if I don't get turned on by you?"

HB8 freaks the fuck out. "WTF!! THAT'S SO MEAN!!! I can't believe you'd say that!!"

Me: "I'm just kidding.. haha."

HB8: "NO! OKAY, we're SO NOT doing this. It's over. I'm sorry, (she starts crying), a guy couldn't get it up before and didn't find me attractive at all!! I DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THAT AGAIN!!! (More sobs.)"

Me: "I'm kidding dude, it was a joke.. I do want to see you."

HB8: "NO it's over. Have a nice life. I'm sorry."

Me: "HEY. HEY."

HB8: "What...!!"

Me: "I like you. I'm kidding about earlier."

HB8: "No...well I dunno...'

Me: "I want to see you."

HB8: "I can't...(Me: I LIKE you. I want to see you. I am turned on) I... okay whatever then just call me or text me tomorrow then... bye."

Me: "Bye."

Guys, you must be thinking WTF. How did Cloud ever get this lay being so chody up til now. I also commend you on reading this far. This is a fucking long report, and I wasn't even sure I wanted to write it.. but I felt it was a pretty major event in my life that needed to be recorded.

If you want to take a break now, go ahead. Here's part 2.

Part 2:
------
I was really dumbstruck by this point. I felt like I had gone on an emotional roller coaster ride. Things looked really bad. She really did seem insane. I doubted she'd even meet up with me by this point.

I texted her after the phone call, repeating basically the same stuff I said on the phone and before. I left it short and simple, then went to bed.

"I can't wait to see you. You are amazingly hot. I want to make your fantasy come true. Good night."

I couldn't sleep at all. I dreamt of strange shit, and kept waking up over and over. I dreamt of fighting clowns with Batman, then chasing ghosts with Scooby-Doo and Yogi Bear. Where the hell does this shit come from? I swear my brain must be made of LSD.

In the morning, I talk to Luck about it, and he just says to think positive. That's our motto anyway. It's still a situation that can be turned around. I concur, and remember Carte Blanche telling me the same thing. "It's never game over man.. there's always just damage control. ".. that's his motto.

"She does seem a bit insane though,"said Luck. "If you don't want her it's okay, but it might still be a good experience for you to learn something new. I can hide in the closet if you want if she tries to bust out a gun lol."

I call HB8 in the morning, but she doesn't answer. I don't leave a message. Instead I just text her saying, "Hey no hard feelings from yesterday, I still want to play. See you at 5 :) I'll be working on job apps all day so call me if you want."

No answer... for a while.

Around 11, she sends a text. "Sorry, I shouldn't have said all that stuff last night."

I reply back with: "Let's just have fun :). No more feeling bad. I wanna make your fantasy come true."

HB8: "Well was what I said at least hot and not rambling?"

Me: "Very hot."

HB8: "Tell me more about yourself."

Me: "Driving (I was just about to). Can I call u in a bit?"

HB8: "I get out of class at 1"

Me: "Kk".

Looks like I was able to damage control and turn it around again. I don't call her at 1 tho, I send a text first saying I will call her and I'm busy trying to find internet access at the moment. It's my way of testing the temperature. No response, so I give her a call and get voicemail. Don't leave a message.

Luck texts and asks if he needs to be around in the house later. I tell him that we're still in communication, so he bids me..'luck'.

I'm working on job apps when HB8 calls me up. She goes back into old routine asking me if I really want to meet her, I should just find a nice girl, blah blah. It's like playing the same exact level again, if you were to die and go back to the last save point. I say the exact same things that worked last time in 'battle', and keep being assertive on meeting up at 5.

"We're on right. 5. Where should I pick you up?"

HB8: "I don't know much about you though. Tell me more about yourself."

I tell her I am an ass model. She laughs but really wants to know. So I tell her what I do. I push the frame back on her and force qualify her to tell me what she does. She tells me about how she goes to college, studies psychology but doesn't like it. I cut thread and start talking about wanting to make her fantasy come true. She tries to cut thread and say that she's probably going to flake. I told her I had a feeling she would, so thats why I called. She thinks that that was funny of me to say.

HB8: "I really don't stick around with any guy. It's so hard to find someone who I really like. I won't probably stick with you and will be pretty judgmental okay?"

Me: "Yeah, it's cool. I still want to make your fantasy come true. It'd be hot." (Rinse, repeat)

HB8: "Yeah and I can be manipulative too. I can read guys so well.. you might think this is totally fucked up to say."

Me: (Lols to myself) "I'm the same way. I get bored and want adventure like you. I am kinda fucked up too. Maybe that's why we get along."

HB8: "Lol, I dunno.."

Me: "Yeah, I think your idea about coming over and wearing sexy clothes underneath while I can't touch was super hot."

HB8: "MM.. really is it hot?"

Me: "Yeah, I'd totally love to make it happen for you babe."

HB8: "Really? Okay.. maybe we'll hang out then. I'm not going to say 'yes', but I'm not saying 'no'."

Me: "Haha, fair enough."

HB8: "I'm not promising anything, but maybe, maybe I'll send you a text tonight."

Me: "Sounds good to me. I'll be around doing more work."

At this point, I don't feel so chody anymore. Somehow I feel like everything's going to be fine. I feel more congruent with myself and I feel like I can be dominant, and make her fantasy come true. Part of me actually wants to just do this. Experience is the spice of life. I don't know what's out there until I try. It could be rewarding.

Around 5 she texts me and says: "5:30 ok?"

I respond back with "Yeah, where should I pick you up from?"

She gives me the address. Luck calls to tell me he cleaned the apartment and went to hang out with friends for a while. "GET LAID DUDE!!", he says.


Part 3: The Seduction
--------------------
Final part to story. I meet her around 6, and she is wearing a really sexy black outfit. She is dressed to kill. Smoking hot lipstick, beautiful body, totally fit. I immediately give her a hug, and then go in for a kiss on her neck. I bite down a little, like a vampire. I feel like one meeting in the dark like this. Twilight and shit. Now I know why girls like vampires.

I take her by the hand and we walk back to my car. Along the way to my place, she asks me all the standard questions.. "How many other girls have you seen on OKC? Is this what you really want? Blah blah blah". I ignore, give vague answers or cut the thread and talk pure comfort stuff. I tell her that I want to atone for my sin of not making out with the mall chick.

I then talked to her about my job and how I make car advertisements, how dealers make a shit load of cash off stupid people, my financial planning stuff, how I want to move to LA, I tease her for liking the IE, she hates the IE, etc etc. Where I end up spiking her temperature is when I start talking about the Nancy Friday book, Women's Sexual fantasies. She's really intrigued and tells me that she wants to be in porn. "If women ruled porn, the porn would be so different, so much better," she said. She agreed with a lot of the stuff Nancy Friday had to say about how society still hasn't progressed in terms of accepting women's fantasies in modern media like they have with men's fantasies.

As I'm talking, I'm constantly moving from holding her hand for a minute, giving her little strokes on her thighs, if we stop somewhere, I give her a small kiss on the shoulder, etc. She's happy... she keeps pressing her legs against my fingers.

We get to my place, she sees my motorcycle and drools over it. She is totally surprised and wonders if I really am an alpha. Enter my living room, then she checks the restroom. She comes out, and I give her some water.

"You're so nice huh..", she says. I kiss her, but she dodges, so I laugh and kiss her on the face. She looks a bit awkward.

I put on the movie, but my Xbox is forcing me to update itself. It makes us wait forever. Talk about state killer. I give her the book to read.

Someone knocks on the fucking door. Some douche is trying to sell me stupid magazine subscriptions. He's weak minded though, so I go all 'X-men out'; cut his routines in half, and quickly escort him out of my door. HB8 looks weirded out.

Finally, stupid Xbox has updated and we can now choose a movie off Netflix. We decide to watch a scary one. I turn out the lights, and we start watching. I move in closer, put my arm around her and lightly massage her. I put my other hand on her thigh and softly stroke it.

As the movie goes on (it's pretty boring, I continue on escalation. My right hand is stroking her thigh, going in a little deeper while I continue to massage her shoulder with my left. I kiss her thighs. I kiss her face. She won't kiss on lips. Whatevs, keep escalating.

15 min in, she is really turned on, and even though she says "Let's watch the movie, no sex", I'm like "We're not having sex. Just light touching and kissing." She starts getting really into it and guiding my hand down further and further, til I'm pretty much fingering her pussy.

One finger at a time..then two, then three, then almost all four. She's totally into it.

I kiss her more and more everywhere but lips, until she really starts climaxing, then she pulls me in and we start making out. The movie barely even started and she proclaims she wants to fuck me in the next room. We go.

She starts furiously taking off her clothes, I take off my pants and make out with her, then work my way down, fingering, and eating her out. She's really into it, and actually tastes good for once. (I guess she douches).

She wants me to fuck her now, so I put on my condom and go for it.

We fuck, and I do it a bit rough. Over time I start falling out.. and having to keep finding her 'hole' sucks.. she's so tight. I can feel her frustration. We change the style to doggy, it's better, but I start getting into my head from falling out again. The more frustrated she feels, the more anxiety I have, until I'm not hard at all...and then she's just feeling super annoyed. So I suggest we take it slow, and I get it up again, we go at it for 10-15 minutes where she rides me, but then she starts getting angry I'm not cumming.

For some reason, I just can't.

One, she's not smiling or anything. Two, she's just acting annoyed and angry. She tells me to grab her hair, spank her, be aggressive, so I do. I fuck her harder, but I also feel like I'm losing my erection in the process. I'm totally not congruent... nor in the moment. It feels so alien to me.

I feel like I'm choking at the NBA finals...

Well, needless to say she's ticked. I'm bleeding also, I guess I ripped my frenulum (skin under the penis head - which happened to me also the last time I had sex... good thing I have a condom. The doctor told me it's not an STD, I screened negative, it's just a normal thing, and to try to go slower, use lube). I tell her that it was painful to have sex and that I needed lube. We try one more time with lube, but then she says that she's wet enough and doesn't need lube. It just makes it more annoying. So I call it quits. She doesn't like cuddling or anything, and tells me she needs to go home.

Well, alright. Cool. At least I tried and got the lay. We get all our clothes back on, and I shrug it off as no big deal. It was definitely a learning experience, and on the way to her place, we opened up a lot. I told her how I was an awkward virgin once, and how I was trying to make my way to getting the hang of this stuff. I told her how it was kind of hard for me to be really angry and be mean, but she understood.

She said she started off the same way, and said to just keep practicing --"Fake it til you make it". For her, early in life, no guys would hit on her for the longest time. All the guys liked white chicks, no one liked her because she was Asian. I was like you don't know how many guys have Asian fetishes. She said no, it didn't help.. and she was really frustrated too, which made her want to change. She used to be really nerdy and study all the time in school, but then she felt burnt out.

That's when she decided to just start 'experimenting' with stuff. She told me everything was an 'experiment' to her, which made it easy for me to say the same thing. It was like I met a female version of myself.. or maybe another man. o_O Maybe that's why I couldn't do her. "I'm not girly at all.. I act very manly sometimes... that's why I think you should just find a nice girl."

To her it was pretty interesting that I didn't cum in like 5 minutes like with past guys. She wondered if she was truly unsexy. I said it wasn't, and the ripping of the penis made it hard for me to want to fuck. I noted she didn't cum either, she kept stopping me when I tried to make her, so I should be mad too lol.

"I just don't cum period," she said. "I will never let a guy make me cum. I want them to cum, so that I've owned them. That's my style. This is why I don't fuck nice guys," she said. I joked that only a 'nice guy' could last so long like I did, and that nice guys around the world had scored again, cause she just got laid by one.

We laughed and ended up being pretty cool as friends, she said to keep improving, and if through my pickup journey I got better, she'd need an 'update'.

We parted amicably. :)

- Cloud

Thoughts
========
Part of me does want a nice girl, but then when I look back, I'm glad I met this girl too. I told her that. I wouldn't have known what else was out there if I hadn't put effort and tried.

It took a lot of work and reframe mastery to get her, and I think it was a fucking roller coaster ride.. but now ultimately looking back, I don't think it needed to be that hard at all. She was down to fuck from the start, and we could have just made it happen. Where I caused problems was by being judgmental and telling her I got turned off by weirdness. I was assumed she would find the mall chick 'weird' too... which was wrong of me. Everyone is a bit weird, (yours truly included) and yes she still might be insane, but indeed I was mean. I need to cut out words like 'weird' from my vocabulary from now on... moving forward, I just need to be more accepting and tolerant. In the end she wasn't a psycho chick with a gun, she was just a chick who was really horny and wanted some cock. She might have a cock addiction, amongst other addictions lolz jk. I dunno if that's what I want long term, def not what my parents want, but... I'm still glad I got to be with her. The experience helps me for moving forward.

I think I want to concentrate now on being more in the moment with girls, and really try to be accepting of their sexual fantasies. If I can do that, I think I will be able to mentally cross the threshold in my mind too that's holding me back. Like I said earlier, it was like playing at the NBA finals, and I came that far, but I just need more polishing.

I can do it :) Experience is everything. For now, at least I made love to the girl of OKC past and have atoned for my sins.

RSD Tyler SF Free Tour [2/2] -- Magic Secrets Of The "Stifler" Laugh

RSD Tyler SF Free Tour [1/2] -- Pimp Like Snatching Up TV's From Best Buy

Top 5 Female Types Men Should Date by TD

All You Need Are Looks & Money

Reflections & Online Game Tricks 1-7-10

I've been thinking a lot on how my game has changed throughout my PUA journey these past two years. Honestly the whole process feels like a huge blur and I'm amazed at how fast it all went. Thank god for my FRs/LRs, I can see what happened during this time span. I'd say my life is definitely better than when I first started -- for one, I have way more girls in my life than ever, and two, I have very little problem escalating to sex and getting laid. I feel like those were the two major areas I needed help in when getting into this, and I'm really proud of myself for taking charge and fixing these problems.

Still, I have a lot to work on.. I'm not in any shape or means the best at this 'game', but I can feel myself getting better and better every day. Closes happen more frequently for me, especially online where I spend a lot of my time 'practicing' due to my hectic schedule. I can get numbers consistently, engage girls in long and attractive/meaningful conversations, escalate them to the point of sending sexy pics to me, and possibly go on day2s. Day2s are my focus at the moment - lately I've been starting to 'chase' after it.. which has hurt my game, so I'm taking measures to tone that down -- any sign of neediness kills one's game; the girls have to want it themselves. As a result, I see maybe 2 girls a month and have a 'pretty good' chance of making sex happen, and I always get the kiss-close.

Areas where I need improvement are obviously the quality of these girls.. most of the girls who want to hook up are 5s or 6s. I occasionally meet a 7 or an 8, but it takes a lot more work to get them to come out, and as mentioned briefly earlier, my logistics are usually the worst part of my game. Most 7s and 8s live in LA, which makes it hard to meet, and weekends are busy for everyone. If I lived in the city, I'm sure I could have fucked 3 or 4 more girls by now; the main problem is making them horny online, but then having to go days in between until meeting on the weekend. It just doesn't work that way. They want you to fuck them that night, but they won't let you come to their house, and they won't drive down. In my mind, the ideal situation would be to meet up at a bar or some mutual hotspot within 5 min of THEIR house, engage conversation and then fuck -- preferably in your apartment. Most of these girls live with their parents. The other thing is timing too -- if you live more than an hour away, they will just get themselves off instead of waiting for you (yes, girls do masturbate - and it's a pretty high percentage).

I've been getting creative though. A lot of times if a girl is horny, I'll just have them send pictures to me, in trade for online 'kisses'. Basically in midst of conversation, if things are going well, you just stop conversation and say stuff like "Mm, I wanna kiss you. *Kiss*" Usually that gets a great reaction from a girl. I almost feel like 'kisses' are currency in the woman world. The more you give them, the more they do back for you. It's not only money fellas. So basically, you charm the girl first, *kiss* her, then do it a couple more times, until she is horny, then you start talking about the things you want to do to her.

When she's in that mode, you start asking for pics. The simplest way to do it? Just ask. "Mm.. I wanna see your breasts." Keep it simple. Start off linearly though with this process -- don't jump around from boob to vagina or you could kill the interaction with ASD. Sometimes they'll give a funny 'no' or 'not yet', but that's all it means -- 'not yet' -- "I need more warming up from you." So continue to talk the smooth talk, spice up the 'kissing', and tell her what you want to do to her. Ask again. Also make it easy for her to send it, don't ask for a full body shot.. if you wanna see breasts, you can pretty much get away with it because she doesn't have to show her headshot. Some girls will first send you panties or bra shots before sending you the 'goods'. If you get ANY sort of picture back, immediately tell them how sexy they are and how it makes you feel. Reward good behavior as they say. This allows her to feel more sexy inside and you can ask for another. Continue to be linear however.. if they show you a bra, ask for a tit. If they show you a tit, ask to see both the 'twins'. Oh yeah, also be 'cute' about the names for this stuff -- it shows you are clever and makes them focus more on how sexy they feel rather than having stigma when you say scientific terms like 'vagina' and 'breast'. Basic NLP here.

A side note: Don't get caught up in the success of it all that you start 'chasing' her to take off all her clothes and send pics to you. Most girls will naturally resist beyond a certain point due to fears of having their pics uploaded to the internet, etc. If you start demanding her to show you more graphic stuff, you will most likely turn her off or even lose her because you're 'chasing' after something from her. It's 'creepy' to her. Instead, if you want her to send more stuff your way, persist a little bit, but then act disinterested if she gives resistance. By disinterested, I mean stop 'escalating' on her, and talk about something really boring… or nerd like. I use this trick on a girl who really hates my love of nerd stuff like Star Wars, anime, etc. Anytime I start talking to her about it (in jest) she's like "SHUTUP AND FUCK ME". Lol. Just pretend you're just a lil bored of her and walk away, do something else.. she'll start nagging until you can go back to giving her attention, then starting the escalation cycle again. Usually by then she'll send you way more sexier pics in hopes you'll keep your attention on her not your nerd stuff.

Anyway, yah these are my thoughts for now.. I'll probably write more as I get time, but it's time for… LUNCH :)

- Cloud


PS: Here are some thoughts I have on what it means to have 'game' to me. Check it out:

- Ability to approach girls and have conversations (indirect or direct) with eventually stating your intention (having the courage to do this)
- Ability to be attractive (which means have an image, actively living it and taking pride in it)
- Ability to draw attention to yourself and be comfortable with it
- Being funny and able to laugh if others poke fun at you
- Being creative (able to make something funny or awesome happen no matter how dire the situation -- ie sell ice to an eskimo)/aka survival skills - able to set up logistics under any circumstance (smartness).
- Able to create BT and destroy it, use it responsibly.
- Being well read or informed of popular culture, music, etc
- Good at communicating your ideas/thoughts -- less is more
- Always think positively no matter how bad the set (if you lose your temper, you lose the game)
- Keeping your ego in check
- Not bragging; letting others find out how smart you are through your wit or creativeness within the 'moment'.
- Not qualifying yourself - not trying to logically prove why you're good for her (ie. your money, house, looks, none of it means shit)
- Having an abundance mentality -- that you're out to find the perfect girl, "you're out to fuck the world - but not like in destroy it, rather life is one giant pussy you must fuck" -- Jeffy
- Ability to analyze and reflect on your progress -- make improvements
- Ability to make girls qualify themselves to you
- Ability to CLOSE and knowledge of different kiss and lay techniques
- Ability to try pickup lines and make em work (that takes courage).
- "Having a love for the game, and knowing it's about the process, not the outcome.. You will get better" - Jeffy
- "Being the source of your own happiness, not needing anyone else to validate you. Being outcome independent, rather just being fun to others" - Tyler
- Taking care of your overall life, and using these powers responsibly.
- Being natural at the end of the day.. "you're just a guy" - Tyler.